What it’s like interning at a national network when news never stops

Video Transcript: When I got the email, there was like approved NBA credential. I started balling my eyes out. People think it’s very different like
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being on TV versus competing, but there’s a lot of thinking on your feet quickly.
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Journalism will survive in some form or another. And it needs people to be dedicated to it and I’m there for that.
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If I had to say something to you know me 3 years ago, four years ago before I started this whole journey, it would be
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just to take the risks. My favorite quote that I always say all the time is the answer is always no
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unless you try. Hello everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Holden Sherman’s Conversations. Today I have
NBC Interns Grace Gates and Dylan Ebs join the show!
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two, not just one, two overachieving college seniors with me who both spent their summers interning in the nation’s
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capital for NBC National. First up, we have Grace Gates, who was a production intern for NBC’s news anchor, Halley
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Jackson, and goes to the University of Texas Austin. And we have Dylan Ebs, who
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spent his summer interning for NBC’s political unit, published over a dozen
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uh I kid you not, over a dozen stories that you can literally find on NBC News.com, which is just crazy. Um and is
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going to continue interning for NBC this school year for Meet the Press and goes to George Washington University. Hello
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guys, thank you so much for being here. Yeah, thanks so much. Yeah, thank you. So my first question
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for you guys is what’s the feeling like seeing your name on a by line for something that is going on not just
What it’s like to intern at NBC National
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local but national news or knowing that what’s being produced on television is
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has your fingerprints on it and you’re still in college. Mhm. Yeah. I just feel like it’s a
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pretty unreal feeling and it’s definitely like a big privilege cuz I remember the first story that I did for
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NBC. It was a coal line with another reporter. Um, and so, you know, just to
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see my name on the website and to be able to know that I contributed to that article and that, you know, those are my
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words on the website. Definitely a super cool feeling. And it’s always cool, too, to see it, you know, being posted um on
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Twitter or X or on Facebook and to actually see, you know, a story generating conversation and to know
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that, you know, what I make is actually, you know, having an impact and it’s
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something that people are talking about. Definitely is a pretty cool feeling. Yeah, absolutely. I’ll agree. I think
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especially on the production side, um I did a lot of making graphics and cutting
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video and um I got to lead a team on one story, like completely pitch and produce
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one story that was really close to my heart. And um for that to have the platform to reach so many people um and
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to even have, you know, like like you said, a fingerprint on it is just such a
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cool opportunity. and you learn so much and then you have something tangible to
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share with the world afterward which is um yeah super gratifying makes everything feel worth it.
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Is there ever like a was there ever like a level of imposttor syndrome that came in being like why me like why why am I
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here like what am I doing this happened earlier than I thought or I never thought this was going to happen.
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Yeah, I will say um I definitely had a feeling of that because I um you know
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got the interview with the team like the final round and I know someone who was
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very high up at NBC and so of course I was like hey like will you like vouch
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for me if you can like I got this interview like not that straight up but like much like took her to coffee you
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know what I mean? Um, and she did, which of course, you know, I have to remind myself like she only vouched for me
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because she believed in me and believed that I deserved to be there. So, um, and she made sure that I knew that, but it
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was definitely hard when I first got there to, you know, you just kind of have a little bit of anxiety, like, do I
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really know what I’m doing? And the answer is no. Um, but you kind of have to fake it till you make it. And um I
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definitely had that feeling, but the team that I worked with was so good at making me feel like I earned it. Um
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which I did, but I had to convince myself of that. Yeah. Especially too, I feel like the
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fake it till you make it is key because once you get there and you realize that everyone else is just, you know, trying
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their best and you know, no one’s going to know everything. But I know, you know, when I started working with some
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of the other reporters in the political unit, which is only like three to four, I would say, you know, everyone’s so
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knowledgeable and, you know, I thought like I had a pretty decent knowledge of, you know, politics and campaigns and
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stuff like that coming in. But then, you know, when you’re working with people who this is their living, you definitely
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realize that there’s so much to learn. But I think just kind of once at least for me like getting that first article
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out and realizing okay you know there weren’t that many edits or you know I felt like it was my voice reflected in
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the article it just gives you good motivation to keep going and you know just not being afraid to take on new
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opportunities. Does being in like a position where everyone you think you’re knowledgeable and then everyone around you is a
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million times more knowledgeable not because they’re better than you but just because they’ve been doing it for so much longer and they’re older than you.
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Yeah. Is that like does that make you intimidated, excited being like, man, I’ve got a long way to go or just like
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like a combo of both? It just feel frazzled. Like how does that make you feel? I mean, I feel like it’s intimidating at
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first a little bit and it’s not because of anything that someone’s doing. You know, that’s not them. It’s just, you
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know, being exposed to a new environment. And so I think once you kind of realize that that’s such an
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asset because that means that the experience that they have and the knowledge that they have they want to share with you and they want to help you
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grow. You know it’s definitely something that I think I was able to realize like somewhat fairly early on that this is
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definitely a great you know thing to lean on and to reach out and that if I have a question you know they’re more
What do great reporters do?
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than happy to answer it because again they have that experience. So definitely is a opportunity.
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Yeah for sure. I think that like with any internship, there’s that element of like you’re there to learn and everyone
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who is there full-time um knows that you’re there to learn. So they’re not
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going to get mad at you for not knowing something because like it’s it’s your
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job. You’re getting paid to be there to learn. Um so I think that too like in the office that I was at I had a wide
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range of ages that I was working with which was actually very com comforting like um my like direct superior
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basically was literally 23. So she like was an NBC intern and now worked there.
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And so we related on a lot. And then Hie is, you know, a little bit older but like has that experience and that
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anchoring experience but is also like able to really relate um with where I’m coming from. And then also like Andrea
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Mitchell and Tom Castell were there who are just these seasoned journalists who have been there for so long and um
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they’re all incredible for so many different reasons, but just having that wide range of experience and um
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different kinds of people to go like pick their brains and ask questions. Um that was really cool and that actually
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helped me feel more safe I think is cuz like there were just so many different experience levels. Was there like a
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common thread like between every great journalist like let’s keep this to journalists for this question and
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reporters and anchors. Um was there like a common thread in behavior characteristic that you guys
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saw in everyone who was great? That’s a good question.
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Yeah. I think just like being a go-getter kind of you know just not being afraid of taking on any opportunity or you know not thinking
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that you’re too good for an assignment. I think it’s really important um because
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you know especially I think something that we can probably both you know say is true is that you know at NBC you are
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you know treated like a full-time employee. Yeah. You know and so just not being afraid to take on any task I think is something
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that I saw you know all the journalists do well at. So, you know, if it’s something like maybe they do a story
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about something that’s not exactly on their beat because, you know, maybe someone’s out that day, stuff like that,
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you know, that comes up since obviously, you know, when you’re working in news, things can change by the second. And so,
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just being having that flexibility and that kind of mindset, I think is super important and something that I’ve
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definitely seen everyone. Yeah. Yeah. NBC is very team oriented. So, I think that that was like very
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natural thing. I will also say like um those reporters and journalists are
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um you know good at they what they do because they ask questions like the the the key to being a good journalist is
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that you ask not just like enough questions but the right questions and so when they’re interacting with that team
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they’re really good at figuring out um what still needs to be done and what um
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is you know needs to be tweaked or like where do we need to leave room all the different things. Um, so I think that
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that is a common thread that I found is that every day I was getting asked different questions or watching them ask
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questions to people um to help cultivate like that environment of like productivity but also being you know
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really fun to be around and be a team player. I know there’s like some like triple irony in what I’m about to ask because
The art of asking good questions
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I’m a journal I’m student journalist asking other journalists about how other journalists ask good questions as I’m
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trying to learn about how to ask good questions. But what do you guys think make good questions just in general?
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Um, I think what makes a good question is, um, that it’s tailored to the person
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you’re talking to and that it’s not, um, I think it’s really easy, at least for
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me, to think like think too far ahead and be like, okay, for this uh, package,
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I want this sound bite, which is, you know, real technical terms, but I I really want this person to say this
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particular thing because it would sound good in my story. Um, but that’s a super selfish way to go about journalism for
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sure. And so I think that um, a good question is one that evokes a response
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and it evokes emotion and is open-ended, but is not too forwardleaning where that
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person feels like they’re obligated to say something. And all of that doubles back down to just building trust with
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your source, whether it’s a man on the street or someone you’ve been in contact with. Um, it’s just being like a human
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and being empathetic and like being able to see where that person is is at.
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Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think the open-ended is definitely key. And also just not really in terms of framing the question,
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but I think something that has been important for me and something I try to remind myself is to not get tunnel
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vision when I’m doing an interview and, you know, when I’m asking questions because obviously, you know, yes, you
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want to do your research. You want to have a list of questions that you’re ready to ask, but you don’t want to just
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be going from question one to question two to question three. You know, if the person you’re interviewing is saying something really interesting, you know,
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you want to make sure that you’re asking follow-up questions and that you’re really making it feel more like a
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conversation, you know, and which I think also helps them open up and they feel more comfortable because it doesn’t
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feel like an interrogation or something. So just I think that’s also something that I’ve tried to keep in mind is just
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how can I make this like a conversation, you know, so that way I’m really finding interesting threads to go off of.
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Well, and also it shows engagement in what they’re saying in the present. And I think ironically asking a question
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about what someone just said can help you ask the questions you really want to ask because you’re creating more of a
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rapport. Um, like I was telling Grace, uh, I had an episode with a bilingual journalist, a bilingual broadcaster on
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the podcast, and she was talking about how sometimes speaking to people in Spanish, um, can help her get better
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sound bites. Whatever you can do to meet people where they’re at, I think always creates just a better conversation and a
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better relationship. So, it doesn’t feel so like this, this, this, this, this. Right. Absolutely. Especially when
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you’re reporting on political issues too, like specifically, it can get really easy to like get bogged down on
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like technical terms or like people are obviously very passionate about what they believe in and they can be
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stubborn, which we all are at times, but um yeah, like Yes. Yes. Exactly. So,
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like meeting them where they are at, like being like, I understand why you feel that way. let’s let’s go a little
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like push a little bit deeper into why like you’re you’re acting in this way or you’re you’re writing this bill or
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whatever. Yeah. Yeah. I’d also just add in that with the technical terms and stuff I think, you
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know, working for NBC, I think you have to remind yourself that, you know, we’re reporting for a national audience. And
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so, you know, covering politics, there would sometimes be stories that, you know, I thought would be interesting or
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even like other reporters, you know, on the political unit thought might be interesting. But you also have to think
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about the audience that again, you have to think about why is the story important to a national audience? How do
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I make sure that I’m not using, you know, these jargon terms or terms that the average person doesn’t know? that
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you know you really have to think about your audience and make your reporting more audience centric which again I
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think it helps build that level of trust. Do you think though it can be very easy to get not over stimulated but
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feel like you don’t have enough answers sometimes and sometimes it has to be about gut right because if you’re um
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just reporting on the Washington DC the city you can have a great understanding
Creating national news
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of how the demographic is but if you’re if you’re doing national news um
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demographics people’s interests they’re they’re all over the place. So, do you think for both of you guys, whether it’s
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on the producing side or the print side or the broadcast side, how do you like have that balance of like, well, I know
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people like this, but I also just have a hunch.
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Yeah. I mean, I feel like also just there’s some stories that are just, you know, naturally important or obviously,
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you know, I don’t think you can just fully go off of what the audience wants, right? because you know if there’s an
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important political campaign or you know if the White House you know makes an important move you know those kind of
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stories you’re not really writing saying okay like are people going to be interested in this I think you know there’s certain things that are just
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going to be inherently newsworthy but yeah I think it’s just important to you know be open to feedback and to be
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flexible and just you know also realize when maybe something isn’t worth covering because it’s not the right
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audience fit. Yeah. Yeah. I you know my experience before working with HI was sorry before
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working with HI was um doing state politics for the state of Texas. Um and
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so you know when I was working there our thought was okay like I’m in Austin why would someone in El Paso care about this
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kind of thing. And so this was a question I was asking from day one with Hie cuz I was like how do I go you know
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Texas is a big state and that was hard. How do I go to a national audience? Why would someone in California care about
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something going on in South Carolina? Like it’s just it can be hard. But um
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you know something I really learned is that there are just universal human experiences and universal feelings. So,
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you know, maybe you’re telling a a really specific story about um a doctor
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in Georgia or something and something happened like if that doctor experienced
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trial and error, that is something every single human has experienced. And so
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telling the story from that angle and being like trying to really tug at that um I think can help loop people in and
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it all makes us feel like a little bit closer as an audience. Um and just like as humans I think um is just thinking
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about okay yeah sure like Dylan said most of the news is this hard news that
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just matters because it’s things happening to people. Um, but when you’re going that step deeper and like having
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to think about how you fill time for a broadcast, um, or f want to, you know, do a feature story, I think about those
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like universal human feelings. What’s the theme there? And then kind of work
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from that angle. Yeah. And Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. No, I was just going to
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um chime in with that and say that one of the stories I did was about um a special election in Virginia for erasing
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Congress because the former representative Jerry Connelly, you know, passed away and so Democrats and cuz
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it’s a deep blue seat, you know, it’s like whoever wins the Democratic primary is going to win the special. And so, you
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know, I was assigned to cover that race. I pitched it and at first I was kind of having that thought of, okay, you know,
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this is a district in Northern Virginia. You know, it’s deep blue. How can I get people to care about it? Why would
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someone Yeah, like back home in Texas want to read this article? And so what I realized when I had interviewed the
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three main Democratic candidates running is that they all kind of had a similar kind of pitch to voters, that they were
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really making it a race about Trump. And I thought that was interesting to see and kind of explore more. Okay, why is
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Trump such a big factor in this race? And so it got into issues like the fired federal workers because it’s northern
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Virginia and so there’s a lot of like contractors, you know, and stuff like that. I want to say there’s over 50,000
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in the district. So it’s definitely one of the highest in the country. And so when I was able to kind of pull in some
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of these issues that get talked about in the press like with Doge, the federal workers, just kind of general opposition
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to Trump, I realized that those were issues that obviously go way beyond just that Northern Virginia district. And so
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I think the article was able to reflect that. It also goes into the questions too because I didn’t fully know that
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going in. But then once you start asking those questions and you build that conversation, you realize like all these different, you know, avenues that a
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story can go. And it kind of feels like you can like there are certain topics, the White
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House, whoever is in office, um certain legislation, like on when it comes to
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hard news, sometimes the weather, there are certain things that people always care about, but a lot of the times, like you both were explaining, it’s about the
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emotions that people want to elicit or or want to know about. And that’s what you’re talking about like you know
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someone in South Carolina could te care about a trial and error story of a doctor um in California if if the right
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emotions are being played with Grace. Yeah. Yeah. I think um I don’t know if
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y’all have read um oh man what’s it called? Um the it’s a feature story one
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of Pulitzer about the the doctor who did brain surgery and the woman died on his
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table. I’ll send you the the link to the story. You can you can share it. It’s fantastic. Um, and it’s used in like all
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of my classes here. And so I think that that um that I took with me because
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yeah, it it can be so overwhelming thinking about a national audience. It’s like everyone in the and sometimes a
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global audience, you know what I mean? So um I think if you can try and make it as
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small feeling as possible, um then that’s ideal. I want to kind of shift gears just a
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little bit and talk about collaboration. Dylan, I know that you made had a lot of articles where you collaborated with
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other people. Grace, if you’re in production, all you do is collaborate all day. Um, what was it like to kind of
Building trust to do more
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see your guys’ roles expand as the internship went on and be like, “Oh,
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wow. These people older than me are trusting me.” H how how did how did you first build that and how did that feel
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outside of good? Yeah, I mean I remember so you know I said my first um article
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was a co by line you know that I did with a full-time reporter and so definitely was a cool experience and
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then when I got to do my first standalone article just me writing it I remember you know kind of at first and
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again kind of ties into the imposttor syndrome thinking okay you know how do I write this or kind of being doubtful of
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okay well this is the way I normally write but is this going to be you know good enough for NBC but honestly I just
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remember, you know, sending my draft to my editor and then, you know, getting a
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message on Slack back saying, “Okay, you know, I put edits in bold, but, you know, everything looks good.” And I look at, you know, the changes that were
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made. And I think I literally tried to have like two different tabs open, you know, where I’m comparing my original
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and I’m comparing what’s actually going to be published and thinking, “Wow, like everything is pretty similar.” Or if
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there was something that was added, you know, I’m thinking, “Wow, like that was a good addition.” And again, that’s where having, you know, the editor,
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having the person with a lot of experience, they’re making you better. And so, definitely it was something that
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I was grateful for and that I think, you know, you definitely see that be
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rewarded with, you know, better assignments and getting to do more stories. Yeah. Um, the number one piece of
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positive feedback that I got was that I used my voice. Um, which is the most
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terrifying thing to do is to go into a pitch meeting with an anchor you’ve
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admired for years and try and say something about the show and like give your opinion on what should make the
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show. Um, but you know, I went in and I just did that from the get- go. I don’t
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know what got into me. Um, but I did and it really paid off because, you know, I,
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you know, got to work on these stories and I I told them I really want to practice my writing scripts and they they, you know, slowly kind of folded me
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in to help me to let me do that. Um, and it’s yeah, big teams working on each story and then it really peaked for me
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um when the flooding hit central Texas in on the 4th of July. Um, I’m from
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central Texas. My hometown was hit pretty hard. Um, I know family who lost
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everything. I was really passionate about the way that that whole event was covered and I told them that I cried in
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front of my team and I hadn’t even met some of them in person before and I was just like very vulnerable about the way
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that I cared about these people in this story. Um, and I am so grateful to them
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because they let me, the intern, take the lead on one of the stories we did
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about FEMA and how FEMA aid gets in the hands of people, specifically how long
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it will take and the process for people in Central Texas because that was the next step that they were at at that
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point. Um, and so yeah, I got to write it. I got to set up the interviews. I got to pick out the video. I got to work
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directly with Aaron Gilchrist who’s a great correspondent and um it’s it’s
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definitely mindblowing like being like wow I you know my team did so much of
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it. They edited all of it. They made it they put the shiny bow on top. But to
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have people at NBC say like yeah we trust you and we know you care about
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this and we want you to take the the reigns on that. It showed me how much
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they care as journalists about putting the right person in charge of stories and um so that they can be as accurate
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and as fair and um but also as compelling as possible. And so anytime
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anyone on the team was close to a story, not necessarily like knew the source or
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anything, but like you know had a heart for a story, they got to cover it because they did the best job at making
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sure like we were talking about earlier, the emotion was there, the human aspect was there, which I think is the most
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important aspect in news in my humble opinion. And I would add too that what makes
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great journalists are the ones that have the best people skills and understanding that even if you’re a professional
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journalist, if something happened, a catastrophe hap happened in central Texas and we have an intern who resides
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in central Texas, you might be the most qualified person to talk about this. So I think
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it’s very powerful to hear that even at the top people are able to understand who has the best access to tell the best
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because you know that other people that I couldn’t access that other people couldn’t access.
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Right. I think it was a really great um display of leadership on their part that I learned a lot from um because they
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were all so empathetic to me and but yeah, also very like just prioritizing
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the viewers um which was super cool to witness and learn from.
Interactions with politicians
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Dylan, were you ever in uh like how often were you in Congress? Um so not too much. We actually we did a
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tour um as a group of interns, but I did get to, you know, like with the special
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election story, you know, interviewed who will soon be the congressman, but didn’t really get to go up on the hill
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that much. How uh in in in those moments around top politicians or writing about
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top political stories um what did you kind of learn about the relations that
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uh you need to make to to have great I don’t want to say great media but to have very informative media in that
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those spots. Mhm. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I think you know really it was just a great experience to
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you know really understand how to understand the relationship between you know the media and politicians because
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you know you’re interviewing or I’m interviewing some of these candidates you know running for office and so it’s
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not just them on the Zoom call like it’s not you know just me and the candidate it’s you know me the candidate and then
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whoever their communications person is and um I’ve never I didn’t have an
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experience where you know like a comm’s person didn’t like a question that I asked But, you know, it’s just an interesting
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dynamic to see. And when you kind of see the behind the scenes of how the media is made, um, and how, you know, a story
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is made or how a package is made, it’s definitely helps you become a more informed um, just news reader in general
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when you can kind of understand the choices a journalist made in crafting it. So I think with the politicians too,
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I mean it was just also interesting just to you know ask some more personal questions and you know really try to you
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know get to the heart at you know when I’m covering a campaign for Congress okay like why are you running? And that
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can be you know a more generic broad question at the start but then you know it goes so many different ways. They
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talk about their upbringing or they talk about you know maybe their kids. They talk about you know their job might be
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important to them. Like I interviewed a um former prosecutor, a federal prosecutor who resigned because of the
26:36
way the DOJ um handled the Eric Adams case. You know, for context, they essentially um dropped the charges
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against him and tried to get, you know, these federal prosecutors to back the decision. Not all of them agreed with
26:49
it. And so, you know, this one resigned and ended up running for Congress. So, it’s definitely just super interesting
26:54
to, you know, be able to talk to these people on a face tof face, virtually, you know, basis. Um, which is definitely
27:01
an experience I’m super grateful for. How did you guys both take advantage of the relationships that you were able to
27:06
make in the NBC News building. Like I feel like that’s like got to be one of the golden opporters,
27:17
your other interns. How do you guys take advantage of that? Because I feel like I don’t know that seems like the most awesome part.
27:23
Yeah. I mean, I would just say, you know, we’re super grateful to have, you know, like a big intern class. And so,
27:28
we had what it was like nine or 10, Grace, I think. Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. And so, just to have like that
Building relationships
27:35
group of people, you know, like we would do karaoke, you know, we had a get together um before like I think the day
27:42
or two before you know, our internships ended. And so, you know, those are really great connections to make simply
27:48
just because, you know, everyone’s amazing and it’s so amazing to be around people who are also just so driven about
27:54
what they do and who are really mission and goal oriented, but also, you know, we’re going to probably end up in the
28:00
media. You know, we could be working with each other 5 years down, you know, 10 years down. And so, the connections
28:06
that you make early on definitely, I think, are ones that will stick. And so, it’s definitely helpful to have.
28:12
Yeah, absolutely. I think that, you know, the obvious connections you want to make are the ones with like Hie or
28:18
Andrea Mitchell or like these people that are just so high up and you’re like, “Yes, please watch my real. Please
28:24
edit my my article. Like, please tell me everything I could do to be like you.” Um, which, you know, with that that’s
28:32
just like making friends and becoming friends with them. um but yeah, I will say like the the people I really enjoyed
28:39
getting to know, of course, love to enjoy I enjoyed getting to know everyone, but um where like I really
28:45
enjoyed my time with the tech crew. Um I got to really know the floor director for Hal’s show really well. Um he was
28:53
just someone that when I talked to him like he was asking me about my goals and things and I could tell that he just really believed in me which is so nice
28:59
to meet people who you’re like yeah like this person actually thinks that I can do what I want to do and so um Bert he’s
29:06
the best and he like stayed late one day to let me record for my reel. Um and I
29:12
know like he would he would totally advocate for me, you know, even if it’s not he’s not necessarily an anchor I
29:18
aspire to be. Um those kinds of connections and like also just learning
29:24
what so many people do. Like we have people who are designated to like book the interviews um at NBC which is like
29:32
sometimes the hardest part of the job and they are like very stressed all the time. And so when they got to like talk
29:38
to me about like building connections and like getting to know people so that they’ll come back, like those are great
29:44
skills to learn and great people to know. Um, so I think really like it’s yeah, I definitely think you should meet
29:51
your heroes. Um, but also like get to know people who have jobs that you never
29:58
knew if you wanted to have or that you might never want to have. Yeah, I think a very important part of all internships
30:05
is not just learning what you want to do, but it’s about what you don’t want to do. What what comes to mind when uh when
30:12
when you think about what you don’t want to do after this summer? I will say I do not want to be a
Learning your passions
30:17
producer and I was a production intern. I
30:23
which I had a feeling going into it. I I probably wouldn’t like it’s a lot of desk work and it’s the it’s what makes
30:30
the show the show, you know what I mean? Um the producers have such an important job. They time everything. They they
30:37
make sure it’s visually entertaining. It’s so much um that’s way more stressful to me than being on air, um
30:45
believe it or not. And so I learned that that’s not my favorite thing. But it is so good to be able to have the skills to
30:53
do things that you don’t like necessarily because in a breaking news situation, you never know what hat
30:59
you’re going to have to wear. Yeah. I think I mean this wasn’t something that I thought I would want to
31:04
do, but just I have so much respect for you know everyone who works on the technical side, you know, of the shows
31:10
like you know the floor directors, the camera operators. I honestly think probably the camera operator is one of
31:15
the most stressful jobs you could have just because you know you have to know you know what kind of shot they want and
31:21
especially again like in a breaking news environment and things are changing like I think that’s just a whole another
31:27
level of having to think on your feet that I’m like I could never do that but so much respect to those who do it
31:33
because you know that is I think a very hard skill to learn and so you definitely have to be like cream of the
31:40
crop good at it you know. Yeah, I feel I feel having like a a very wide vision
31:46
when you’re at an internship, whether you’re doing exactly what you want to do or you’re not, as long as you’re observing what the people around you are
31:53
doing, that isn’t exactly what you’re doing and might be tangential to it. I feel like you can learn not just a lot
31:58
about your industry, but a lot about yourself, too. Um, so kind of staying on that like what
32:05
you guys have learned, let’s say, you guys are both seniors. You guys are covering a breaking news story. How
32:12
would you guys cover it differently now than you would three months ago? Breaking news, big politics story,
32:18
however you want to describe it. Just a massive news event. Uh well, there was a lot of those over
32:24
the summer. My was it was a lot. That was the number
32:29
one thing that I took away was how to cover breaking news, actually. So, I’m so glad you asked this question. I think
Covering breaking news
32:36
um something I that really affirmed my hope in journalism is that you know the
32:42
people at the the top they’re very particular about how you word things and
32:48
you know just because one network has something that doesn’t mean everyone else does and like we have to confirm
32:54
everything ourselves. Um so I think you know that aspect is really important. I think um you know
33:00
on a local level um it’s very different than a national level just cuz you don’t have the same resources. But if there
33:07
was a big breaking news story I think before my internship I definitely would
33:12
still be very careful and try and be as fast as I can. Um, but I think I really
33:18
learned is that it is hard to have a breaking news story if you don’t either have really good video um, for broadcast
33:26
specifically. Um, have really good video or have a really good reporter that you can talk to who knows what they’re
33:32
talking about. Like for example, Brian Cobberger took a plea deal in the middle of our show and that was something that
33:39
we were like scrambling to get research on and everything, but thankfully we had a correspondent who had been following
33:45
that case for a really long time and we had a legal expert on standby and so we were able to make the show enjoy like
33:52
not enjoyable but like entertain like you know like like something that people would want to watch um and and
33:59
educational um because those people were able to contribute if it had just been the anchor saying just like straight up
34:05
Brian Cobberger take a took a plea deal that would have you know been it. So um
34:10
I think it’s important to be able to provide that context whether it’s with video or with a reporter. Yeah, I think
34:16
like the ethics side of it was definitely like what I had learned the most about. Like I barely knew what like
34:22
a standards person was, you know, before the summer and when I realized how
34:28
important of a job that is to be able to know, okay, can we use this video or
34:33
not? Or, you know, ABC maybe is reporting this, but you know, can we use that info if we haven’t verified it
34:40
ourselves? So, I think just you have to be super careful, you know, with how that news um is shared. And I think now
34:48
too with social media, it’s so much easier to just, you know, put anything online and so it’s harder to tell, okay,
34:54
well, what’s real, you know, is this video AI or is it an old video, you know, that’s claiming to be of
34:59
something. So I think definitely like what I’ll bring with me in the future is just like how to know in breaking news
35:06
just to be able to like take a step back and not like get in the rush of it and start you know saying well I found this
35:12
online like maybe that’s true. Just I think it’s super important to just take a breather and really try to analyze you
35:18
know the situation so that way your reporting is more thoughtful and not as reactive.
35:24
For people who don’t know, could you explain what like a standards person is? Yeah, it’s basically um essentially at
35:31
NBC there’s someone who’s essentially supposed to, you know, be covering it almost 24/7 or at least during kind of
35:38
normal news hours, but they’re the ones responsible for essentially deciding if
35:43
we publish something or not when there’s something that is more controversial or more sensitive. So, I’m trying to think
35:50
of an example, but we would get the emails. Like I feel like half of my um Outlook inbox would just be like
35:55
standards guidance, standards guidance. And so, um actually an example today,
36:01
here’s an example, um that I can think of is that, you know, with the Minnesota shooting, the you know, tragic shooting
36:07
at a, um Catholic, um they were praying, I think, as you know, some of these kids were being shot. but as we were learning
36:15
more about the shooter, I think the person um had changed their name. And so I want to say was born as Robert but
36:23
changed their name to Robin. And so I was seeing some of the emails that that had been reported in some places, but it
36:29
was very early on. There was also a YouTube account that was found that, you
36:34
know, supposedly had a manifesto, you know, from the person who did this. And
36:40
so that standards person is essentially your go-to when you’re saying, “Okay, can we use this? Has this been is this
36:47
reportable?” Like I think reportable is one of the key words, you know, really just meaning that if it’s reportable, we
36:54
can do an article about it on NBC.com. It could go on NBC Nightly News. Like it’s good to go. And that standards
37:00
person is often the one making sure that something is reportable and that it’s been verified. Grace, did you also deal with a
37:06
standards person as well? Oh, yes. We had to um absolutely they they like um he mentioned standards
37:12
guidance. So that’s very like we would get emails um every day, multiple times a day that would say like these are the
37:19
top stories right now and here are here’s like how to address this person.
37:24
Here’s how to word um this situation like or for example with like um the
37:32
like a hunger situation in Gaza right now that’s awful. um like the
37:38
surrounding the word famine, can we call it a famine? Um and those are decisions
37:43
that are made by people who are specifically trained in standards and legal um so that they can so that we can
37:50
just be as accurate as possible. And we also had to send um all of our scripts
37:55
that were for packages um or like pre-taped things. We had to send all of
38:01
our scripts to standards to make sure that it was good to go um and that there wasn’t anything that came off as
38:07
misleading. And we also got a training on standards um like before we started our
38:12
internship, a live training where you know the head of it explained like some of the key decisions and why like we
38:19
might use one word over another which I think definitely was helpful to have. Last couple questions here. Um how do
Staying humble and calm
38:26
you guys stay composed for future opportunities? um after having such a surreal experience like being at the
38:32
mountaintop. I mean it’s kind of a weird feeling in a way like going from you know being at
38:38
NBC for a summer to just you know returning to classes you know and being on my school newspaper you know and
38:45
writing articles for that is definitely an adjustment. So, I don’t know. I mean, I feel like it can feel easy to kind of
38:52
minimize then the work you’re doing after that because I think it’s easy to get into the trap of thinking, well, I
38:57
was at NBC, so, you know, this class work I’m doing now doesn’t really matter. But I try to remind myself that
39:03
it still does and that, you know, no matter how, you know, big of a network or big of an opportunity, like all the
39:10
opportunities you have like really do matter. And so, kind of goes with just saying yes to everything. I think you
39:15
just have to like, you know, keep that mindset. Always be open to new opportunities. Great.
39:20
Yeah, I I agree. Answer. Um Dylan, you’re still you’re going to be interning in Meet the Press this year though, right?
39:25
But yeah, I will be I’ll be at Meet the Press for the academic year. So, starting in two weeks. So, I know
39:31
enjoying the unemployment life for two weeks and then we’ll be getting up at like 2:30 a.m. on Sundays. But, it’s
39:38
worth it. Sorry, Grace. What were you gonna say? No, no worries. I I absolutely agree. I
39:43
think that, you know, I once had a friend tell me like every single story
39:48
matters um to someone. And so I think that that’s really key. I’m interning um
39:55
at the local NBC station here in Austin this semester. I’ve been there before and I’m coming back and um it’s
40:02
definitely a jump like being at Network and then going down to a local affiliate. Um but you never know what
40:10
opportunity you may have. Like I am positive the people at this local station had no clue that the devastating
40:17
flooding was going to come and that network NBC would be relying on their coverage during it. Um and so news is
40:24
everywhere. Like I said, every story is going to affect someone and so it’s just
40:30
our job to um tell it and to hold people accountable. And yeah, um it can I
40:36
definitely agree it can be hard to stay grounded after such a high. Um but you know, you can’t dwell on the past too
40:42
much. You just have to take what you learned and and keep going. I like to ask this question to people
Grace and Dylan’s future
40:49
just when this podcast is big and has hundreds and thousands of followers, um
40:54
people can look back. Where are you guys going to be in five years?
41:01
I’d like this pause. I was just Oh, sorry. No. What?
41:07
No, I told you to go first. You go first. No, I was just going to say hopefully a political reporter. You know, hopefully
41:12
for NBC, honestly, just because again, I think NBC what I noticed at least out of
41:17
the three big networks. I mean, they have the biggest presence both, you know, with TV, but also online. And so,
41:24
fingers crossed, but hoping to be covering politics. Um man, so uh I want to be a reporter on
41:32
air and I need to go somewhere small to make all my mistakes first. Um so um but
41:39
after that, you know, you know, if I can I know someone who’s a network correspondent after 5 years. So I’m
41:45
going to say that um that that’s hopefully where I’ll be. But I try not to plan too far in advance. I think
41:51
plans um are always ruined and it’s always for the best. So, um, you know,
41:56
we’ll we’ll call that the goal, but if something else happens, I’m sure it’ll be better. This is my last question that I give to
Advice to younger self
42:03
every guest, and I say that every episode. What is advice that you guys could both you would both give to your
42:08
younger selves when you realized that you wanted to pursue this crazy path that we call journalism?
42:17
I would say just don’t be afraid to speak up and like you really just have to be confident which then I would say
42:24
for me it’s kind of sometimes feeling like you’re faking it till you’re making it you know like I feel like I was on my
42:30
high school newspaper and so I knew kind of going into college that I wanted to major in journalism that it’s what I want to do but you know there would
42:37
definitely be times where maybe I wouldn’t apply for an opportunity or something because I thought that I wasn’t qualified enough for it or
42:44
looking at an internship posting and seeing well you know I don’t really fit like all the qualifications really but I
42:50
think you just have to realize that the worst someone can say is no and I think that is something that I’ve really tried
42:56
to live by more where you know I might apply for something even if I don’t think I’m 100% you know the right fit
43:03
for it you never know what you’ll learn and you’ll never know what kind of opportunity you will get and so you just
43:09
have to not be afraid of taking you know on challenges like that yeah uh someone wants told me closed
43:14
mouths don’t get fed and I have been living by that ever since. I think I would tell myself there’s a Bible verse
43:20
that I lean on a lot that says don’t let people look down on you because of your youth. And I think that that’s something
43:27
that I would remind myself when I was younger if I could because I think I’ve always been someone who’s for some
43:34
reason been around a lot of adults and like been the youngest in the room and definitely not the smartest in the room
43:40
and I love being the smartest in the room. So, um it it can be challenging,
43:45
but um like like Dylan said, like confidence is key. Um know that it’s
43:51
okay to be wrong and know um that you are wrong a lot. Um but that just means
43:58
that you have something to learn and that’s exciting. And so don’t look down on yourself because you’re the youngest
44:04
in the room or not the smartest in the room, but because that just means you
44:09
have the most room for growth, which is so exciting being someone who’s, you know, about to graduate college and be
44:16
out in the real world where there’s so much opportunity. You guys want to drop your socials?
Follow Grace and Dylan on socials!
44:22
Yeah, for sure. I mean, I try to post some of my articles um on Twitter, so
44:27
it’s like my first name, last name, Dylan Ebs22. Um Yeah.
44:35
Also on LinkedIn a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, LinkedIn’s so bad for me. I know. I’m trying to get 500 plus. I’m
44:42
like almost there. So, definitely like Yeah. I um I use Instagram the most. It’s just
44:50
two underscores. Gracegates2 underscores and I also make Tik Toks. Fun fact about
44:56
me, I’ve been to Greenland. I have a very large Greenlandic Tik Tok following. Um, but now I’m transitioning
45:02
into news. So, it’s just the Greygates is my Tik Tok. So, if y’all want to
45:07
follow that too. Thank you all for watching another episode of Holden Sherman’s Conversations. Make sure to like,
Thanks for watching!
45:13
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